PCC Chats With
January 20, 2004
1/20/2004 Topic - Personalized Tools and Production Techniques:
SueDeaunim: Entered room.
Kathi: hey Sue =)
Sarajane: Hi Sue!
SueDeaunim: Good morning/afternoon!
Sarajane: We're on pc time, now!
Sarajane: Gotta grab coffee--BRB
Kathi: She has her very own time zone.....it's called teh twilight zone>g<
SueDeaunim: I'm in a similar zone here in Texas
rubarb04: Entered room.
Kathi: yah gotta love those time zones
SueDeaunim: Hey Barb
Kathi: hiya Barb =)
SueDeaunim: Glad you could make it
rubarb04: hi guys!
rubarb04: Hi Sarajane!
Kathi: SJ is brb coffee
rubarb04: hope i can stay for a bit
Sarajane: here I am again!
Kathi: wb Sj
rubarb04: hi Sj!
Kathi: where is that silly Pat?
Sarajane: how are you all doing today? Staying warm?
rubarb04: she said she'd be here
rubarb04: it's very drizzly here
Kathi: no...warm is not a word in Bakersfield during the winter.....
rubarb04: which is good for us
Kathi: grumbles about fog season
SueDeaunim: It's quite sunny here in Houston, but it's only 53.
Sarajane: well...relatively, I mean!
PoKoPat: Entered room.
Kathi: hiya Pat
rubarb04: there's pat!
Sarajane: Hiya Pat!
SueDeaunim: Hey Pat
PoKoPat: Sorry I'm late, been running like crazy this morning!
Kathi: well.....if I stay inside I am planty warm
rubarb04: that's sounds kinda nice sj
Kim: Entered room.
rubarb04: hi kim!
KCRedcat: HI ALL!
Sarajane: Hi Kim!!
PoKoPat: Hi Kim!
Kathi: um Pat....and this is different then the norm for you?
Kathi: hiya Kim
SueDeaunim: Hi Kim
PoKoPat: Well, no, Kathi. But with a little extra hustle this morning.
Sarajane: Pat, things have been crazed here too---kids just went back to school today
rubarb04: pat's been trying to get caught up so she could be here
rubarb04: mine too sj
7Jackie: Entered room.
Kathi: hey...I did some errands this morning too....
rubarb04: hi jackie
Kathi: hiya Jackie
Sarajane: Hi Jackie!
7Jackie: Good Morning. Sorry I am late
KCRedcat: caught up? is that EVER possible? lol
SueDeaunim: Hi Jackie
KCRedcat: hi Jackie!
Kathi: I don't think so Kim
Sarajane: No, Kim---but we try to keep the head above water, not below!
7Jackie: Hi Sarajane thanks for having this chat today
PoKoPat: Oh yeah, shop, bank, other shop, post office, grocery store, back to shop, home, pay bills, mail bills, fix the plumbing - that wasn't part of the plan! Ack!
Sarajane: thank you all for coming!
PoKoPat: Hi Jackie.
KCRedcat: I 'ran' errands yesterday...
rubarb04: lol pat
KCRedcat: Bank and SHOPPING...
Kathi: ACTION did the second Michaels run in two days
rubarb04: clay shopping perhaps kim?
Sarajane: speaking of errands...
KCRedcat: just got my BRAND NEW Pasta Machine and MOTOR hooked up on the only 'other' space in the living room too!
PoKoPat: Our banks were closed yesterday. So had to go today. :(
SueDeaunim: Timing on this topic is perfect, Sarajane...I've been trying to get myself organized to do this clay stuff as a business.
rubarb04: me too
Sarajane: does anyone here declare milage on a schedule C for business?
KCRedcat: I was at Joann's etc twice yesterday...had 2 50% off coupons!
PoKoPat: Ooopsy - what is the topic? hehe
rubarb04: i still need to get my business license
Kathi: aieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Sj is talking taxes!!!!
7Jackie: I do schedule C
Kathi: ACTION dives into the corner and trembles
Sarajane: well, we'll be talking about organizing today---its the perfect time of year for it.
KCRedcat: I haven't made any 'money'...yet...
7Jackie: oh goodie
Sarajane: nononono---that'sa's not the point, Kim!!!
7Jackie: organization and me = disaster
PoKoPat: Ah, that's great SJ. So, tell us how.
Sarajane: have you spent money?
KCRedcat: they recently 'took away' my tax license BECAUSE I haven't filed taxes in the years since I got it...
Sarajane: THAT"S the point.
KCRedcat: oh yes, tons...
ljcswartz: Entered room.
7Jackie: Hi Jackie!
Kathi: Hiya Jackie
ljcswartz: hi Jackie
KCRedcat: but I'd be all in the red...
Sarajane: then reapply, Kim--its worth your while...
rubarb04: hi jackie
PoKoPat: Hi Jackie!
Sarajane: Hi there!
SueDeaunim: Hi jackie
ljcswartz: hi all
rubarb04: how long cna you have a busines license
Sarajane: OK----lets start this with the idea that we have a business.
KCRedcat: I wrote to them and 'explained' that I was INJURED on the JOB 4 days AFTER I applied...and have been off work since....'disabled'....
rubarb04: without declaring a profit?
Kathi: I tried to do the business thing once.....but then my art became work...and it wasn't fun any more....so now...I just create and if ppl want to buy something....I let them
Sarajane: and you need to keep track of things.
KCRedcat: waiting to hear back...
rubarb04: i had one for a year
Sarajane: even disabled, you can file the paper work.
ljcswartz: on a spread sheet?
KCRedcat: yeah, I need to keep track...I'm terrible about that shift...
rubarb04: then didn't renew it
Sarajane: you have a long time!
7Jackie: I don't have a choice about keeping track, every expenditure has to be recorded or my checkbook doesn't balance
rubarb04: hmmm, need to do that pdq
Sarajane: ok--hear me out please...
PoKoPat: brb - need coffee for this discussion
SueDeaunim: ACTION is listening
7Jackie: ok listeninig
ljcswartz: really listening
KCRedcat: ACTION is listening also...
7Jackie: me too
Sarajane: you can show NO profit for 3 years before the IRS looks to see if you are making a real attempt to sell.
KCRedcat: watching rather...
7Jackie: I know
Sarajane: this means, having auctions, doing shows, having a website---any legit attempts, even if you have no profit.
Sarajane: remember---profit is not the same as income
KCRedcat: this was my 'state' tax btw...
rubarb04: ok, so i have to show profit not just income
Sarajane: you MUST follow the rules if you want to play this game, Kim
rubarb04: i need to go to a class or something
Sarajane: and rule number 1 is file the papers
7Jackie: no you can show NO PROFIT (loss)
SueDeaunim: So, how does one find all the rules?
KCRedcat: state told me not to ....
PoKoPat: back, and paying attention.
Sarajane: no, you have to show income and expenses--NOT profit. Many big Co.s have no profit
rubarb04: i found some small business brochures at the bank
7Jackie: schedule C rules when you do Fed Income Tax
KCRedcat: ahhhh, ok...
Sarajane: Also the library, and accountants--I go to HR block every year, because I am NOT a lawyer or accountant
Sarajane: but I do my own taxes, they just check and file
KCRedcat: yes, I also need to open another bank account for my business....had to close mine due to aohell problems...
Sarajane: here's rule number 2:
SueDeaunim: My hubby is a CPA, but he hasn't been forthcoming with all the info I need to start a business
KCRedcat: Frank's great at Taxes and paperwork...
Sarajane: SAVE ALL RECEIPTS
rubarb04: THAT i knew
KCRedcat: I do...they are disorganized, badly!
KCRedcat: I 'never' throw away those things! LOL
Sarajane: get a folder, envelopes stuck together, a box--whatever it takes---but put them in there every time
rubarb04: but has to be in the same year, not money you've already spent right?
Sarajane: EVERY ONE--even if its 40 cents for a stamp
KCRedcat: I figure a monthly envelope?
PoKoPat: May I ask a question about this real quick?
Sarajane: Sure, Pat
SueDeaunim: How do you handle assessing what you have already? I've accumulated tons of stuff over the years for which I no longer have receipts.
rubarb04: me too shelley
PoKoPat: We have a family business, license, the whole works - can I run my stuff thru that, or should the license et al be separate?
Sarajane: Don't worry about that part--start with 2003 only
PoKoPat: um, 2004?
Sarajane: due to depreciation, most of our old stamps and skewers have no "real" value.
KCRedcat: no, you still have 'time' for 2003 taxes...
7Jackie: Sarajane, Pat had that question which is a good one I think
Sarajane: Start the 2004 pile NOW--you need that NEXT year
rubarb04: uh huh
Sarajane: It depends on the business--it could well be
PoKoPat: auto repair - a bit different, I know.
7Jackie: Pat, you will need a separate business and license because it is a different thing
Sarajane: there's a part on the sched.C where you show a number for what sort of business
7Jackie: May I ask everyone a question, please?
Sarajane: I say "apparel manufacture"
Sarajane: Sure, Jackie!
7Jackie: Well you all have computers...
7Jackie: Don't you keep your records for your regular bills and all of that on your computers
Sarajane: If Pat's family business is truck leasing, and this is jewelry, it needs to be separate sched. C at the very least,
rubarb04: sheesh not me
7Jackie: Like Quicken is what I am thinking
PoKoPat: I don't Jackie.
KCRedcat: I don't have quicken....
7Jackie: really? Wow!
Sarajane: I don't do mine on computer at this time
7Jackie: oh wow I am amazed
KCRedcat: I used to keep my checking account on a spread sheet that I created....
PoKoPat: I pay some bills online, but I keep paper files on everything.
rubarb04: do you mean your family expenses?
SueDeaunim: Me neither, Jackie....I just pay my bills through the banks online service. I don't use anything else.
7Jackie: why have I been doing it for the last 20 years this way
7Jackie: I hate it
Sarajane: I use paper and pencil--I'm old fashioned...
rubarb04: my husband just keeps a spreadsheet on pc
7Jackie: okay - how many of you balance your checkbook to your statements every month?
PoKoPat: I do, every time. To the penny.
SueDeaunim: I quit doing that years ago.
7Jackie: I knew it, Pat
PoKoPat: Both business and personal.
Sarajane: I keep track in the checkbook itself
KCRedcat: not me...I've gotten bad...
rubarb04: me neither
PoKoPat: Former bookkeeper, what do you expect?
ljcswartz: started just going online and looking at the transactions - to balance the accounts
KCRedcat: I 'often' check online though....
rubarb04: that's what i do too, just go online
PoKoPat: But I don't keep the records on the pc because it's double work.
7Jackie: oh well thanks, it is good to have an idea of what people do
that's why you are having those problems with licenses and such, Kim--its a game, and you have to play on your turns or the game ends.
KCRedcat: I know....
KCRedcat: I've been dealing with so much 'shift'....
Sarajane: I'm not yelling--just telling.
PoKoPat: Do you mean business is a game, SJ?
7Jackie: Sarajane, that is a wonderful way to put it!!
7Jackie: about the game, play on your turn or the game ends!
Sarajane: Best one in town, other than people watching, which is more of an amusement.
rubarb04: did you learn by trial and error sj?
KCRedcat: with my lawsuit and so forth....the 'disability'....medical bills and trying to get aid....it's very overwhelming for something with badly treated ADD
PoKoPat: Well, I'd call it interesting, anyway. I'm not sure my hubby would appreciate the game ref, hehe.
Sarajane: Yes, and also reading, reading, reading.. and asking ?????s
7Jackie: the game doesn't end as much as it turns into another game!
KCRedcat: undertreated...bady treated...
rubarb04: hate reading stuff like that ;)
KCRedcat: I have 'several' games going at once! LOL
Sarajane: Kim, its OK not to do things--you don't HAVE to be a business!
7Jackie: But wait, Sarajane!
Sarajane: That's very true, Jackie!
KCRedcat: for 'now' the business really isn't 'possible'...but I 'like' holding onto my DBA
7Jackie: we all have to pay our bills, correct?
7Jackie: so whether or not we have a business, we have to deal with our finances
ljcswartz: so are there actions to avoid when you are not a "business?
7Jackie: Of course, avoid not paying your bills!!
7Jackie: or they turn off your gas, water, electric
Sarajane: actions to avoid---earning more than $400
PoKoPat: per year?
Sarajane: if you are not a business, earning $400 in a year says yes you are
KCRedcat: yeah, 'earning' would put a 'dent' in my SSDI I'm sure...
7Jackie: wait a second, Sarajane
Sarajane: That's PROFIT--not income...and here's the interesting bit
Catherien: Entered room.
PoKoPat: Hi Cat.
KCRedcat: hi Cat
Catherien: Hi Ladies
rubarb04: odayhey cat
7Jackie: there you go, not EARNINGS, but profit
7Jackie: Hi Cat!!
Sarajane: Hi Cat
Catherien: ACTION waves
Sarajane: RIGHT! very important diff, here.
PoKoPat: Okay, I gotta ask to slow down a bit. I'm getting lost.
Sarajane: Now, you need to deduct all the things that pertain to business
SueDeaunim: Oh, thanks for pointing that out again...I was thinking about my sales this year and they exceeded the $400 mark, but I'm sure that I didn't net that much.
Sarajane: Lets catch up then--any ?s so far?
Catherien: oh we're discussing business... wonderful
KCRedcat: lol is that a 'good' wonderful???
PoKoPat: Yeah - who determines when you've profited more than $400?
Sarajane: Lets define some terms
PoKoPat: Thanks SJ; I think that'll help.
Sarajane: Income=all money coming in from sales
Sarajane: expenses=all money spent on ANYTHING for business use
Sarajane: also includes barters
Kathi: *PART* Left room.
SueDeaunim: So, expenses would not include your time to make something?
Sarajane: and you keep track of ALL of it--ink for the printer, paper, envelopes, stamps, show fees,
KCRedcat: barters even?
Sarajane: but NOT your own labor--you don't get paid.
SueDeaunim: OK, thanks
rubarb04: what about car, gas, insurance etc?
PoKoPat: This might sound nit picky - but how do you keep personal use and business use of a home printer, etc. separate?
Sarajane: yes barters....I took a $400 class in WORD informally in trade for $400 worth of my HTML time
7Jackie: yes barters but be careful IRS will look at things like that if excessive
Sarajane: its not nit picky--you either get two printers, as we have, or two separate setups entirely
SueDeaunim: Oh wow!
KCRedcat: yeah, wow
PoKoPat: Well, that's not a real option right now.
Sarajane: the IRS wants to know it all--never hide or lie to them or your doctors
KCRedcat: can you do an 'hourly' cost?
Sarajane: not of your own labor, Kim.
PoKoPat: good question, Kim - if you're talking bout the printer.
KCRedcat: yeah, well, doctors don't always LISTEN and HEAR anyhow! LOL
SueDeaunim: But what about an hourly cost of your equipment...like PCs?
KCRedcat: no, I meant on the printer/computer thing....
Sarajane: you can also only count the paper, and keep separate stacks, etc.
7Jackie: only if you rent, Shelley
Sarajane: my kids buy their own cds to burn, I don't supply them
KCRedcat: they 'should' anyhow
SueDeaunim: Hmmm, so then you don't get to write off things like your computer if you have only one for both business and pleasure?
7Jackie: otherwise you own it and have to depreciate them
7Jackie: or else buy one within each year, and throw the old one out
Sarajane: Right...its worth it to have an older one for personal use. Cars too!
Sarajane: its not worth the paperwork to declare your car unless you travel for business a LOT
7Jackie: wait Sarajane
rubarb04: i see
KCRedcat: or the 'expense'!
7Jackie: I disagree to an extent!!
Catherien: Sarajane, can you touch on tax id numbers and business liscenses
KCRedcat: I'm barely able to afford ONE car!
Sarajane: instead, if you go to a show, rent a vehicle and write off the entire cost
7Jackie: what about mileage.....? That's worth it.
7Jackie: oh that's a good idea
Sarajane: mileage...mileage is tricky. I checked this with an IRS guy and two accts.
7Jackie: we always do mileage!!
Sarajane: mileage does NOT start at your house--it starts at the first place you go to.
KCRedcat: that's odd!
Sarajane: Say you go to the bank, then the PO, then a sales call.
KCRedcat: so make sure you stop someplace close then! LOL
KCRedcat: my PO BOX is only a MILE from home!<>
7Jackie: smart, Kim!
Sarajane: IRS says people go out on errands, have to drive to work, going out doesn't count...you start counting from the bank
SueDeaunim: But, think about it. If you were employed, you wouldn't be able to charge mileage to go to the office.
KCRedcat: and 'lucky'! LOL
Sarajane: to the PO and the sales call, NOT going home--you'd do that anyway.
Sarajane: must show all actual odometer readings
KCRedcat: no...the PO is for the BUSINESS....
7Jackie: we do that
KCRedcat: no 'guessing'....
Sarajane: mark which are personal, which are business
KCRedcat: they want those 'exact'....
7Jackie: we keep one car for business, the other is personal
Sarajane: and its a big red flag for audits
Sarajane: two cars is the best way, one only for business
7Jackie: but there are certain write offs for the personal vehicle - in your regular taxes not Schedule C
Sarajane: we only have on...so we rent for far away shows or fly
PoKoPat: Another question?
Sarajane: sure, Pat!
PoKoPat: What if you're cruising along, not doing much in the way of sales or record keeping ....
PoKoPat: and then suddenly you hit it big? Is the IRS gonna jump all over you?
rubarb04: great ? pat
KCRedcat: brb, having computer 'issues'....have to reboot me thinks....
Sarajane: They can, if they wish, "estimate" your earnings and taxes
PoKoPat: ok Kim
KCRedcat: *PART* Left room.
Sarajane: and yes, then you have to prove that you don't owe those taxes
7Jackie: Maybe Pat, but if you have records, they cannot do a thing
PoKoPat: You mean, for the years prior to being "discovered?"
Sarajane: So if you think you might hit it big, start as you mean to go, and keep track
Sarajane: They don't usually go back far
SueDeaunim: And then if you do you can file to become a business and pay taxes, etc?
Sarajane: as long as you are filing other taxes
Sarajane: Right, Sue!
7Jackie: Catherien asked a question about tax ids and business licences before
7Jackie: I am wondering, too
Sarajane: missed it--let me scroll back
7Jackie: bad spelling, sorry!
Sarajane: ok, tax ids and business liscenses
Sarajane: what do you want to know about them?
7Jackie: do we need to have them?
Catherien: do you need a license?
Sarajane: Thar's where you start the paper trail--register for the tournament, as it were!
Catherien: I have a tax id for buying supplies
Sarajane: Its called different things in states
7Jackie: funny register for the tournament as it were!
Sarajane: but usually the same thing---DBA, tax id, sales license
7Jackie: Me too, and no number, it is a hassle when I go to shows in other states
Sarajane: the cost of the license is deductable
7Jackie: Nevada is a little too streamlined
Catherien: to clarify, are you saying that a tax id number and a business liscense are synonymous?
Sarajane: you must file and pay sales tax in every state wherein you sell
7Jackie: sorry I don't "DO" shows!
Sarajane: Cat, they often are--check with your state officials
Sarajane: usually Dept. of Revenue
7Jackie: but when I purchase I use my tax id to avoid paying sales tax
7Jackie: as it should be
Catherien: Right. In Illinois, they are separate
7Jackie: but because NV doesn't give you a number if you are not a corp
Sarajane: then you'd need both, I reckon-check with the officials
PoKoPat: Okay another question. (Sorry)
7Jackie: people don't want to give you the break sometimes
7Jackie: don't be sorry!!
Sarajane: its their job, to push paper
Sarajane: you don't think they'd want less????
Sarajane: Ask away, Pat!
Catherien: so before I go to the B&B show in Wisconsin, I'd need a tax id for that state also? ok.
PoKoPat: If you purchase using your resale license (that's what it's called here) and then wind up using some of the supplies for personal use? What happens to your numbers then?
Sarajane: Car, as a vendor or shopper?
7Jackie: Cat she meant
Catherien: Ok. Both, selling and buying
Sarajane: There's a line, Pat on the sched C "less items removed for personal use"
7Jackie: ta da!
PoKoPat: Obviously, I don't do the tax paperwork for our business. hehe
Sarajane: yes, as a vendor you'd need a temporary licence there--if that state requires it. Oregon doesnt some do
Rosey63: Entered room.
7Jackie: hello Rosey
PoKoPat: Hi Rosey.
SueDeaunim: Hi Rosey
Catherien: Ok Sj thanks
Rosey63: hey all
Sarajane: let me say again--I'm not a lawyer or accountant--but every business person should know about stuff like this
7Jackie: Sarajane, it has been very good to be reminded of these things
7Jackie: and April 15th is coming, isn't it?
PoKoPat: Don't worry, SJ - I'd double check everything. ;)
Sarajane: many states have temp sales lic. for "transient" vendors
Catherien: There is a home business for dummies book out there too
7Jackie: oh is it good, Cat?
Sarajane: MANY books--the library is your best friend as a small business
7Jackie: have you checked it with real IRS rules?
7Jackie: hmmm, if you have a library
Sarajane: those rules change EVERY year
rubarb04: can you recommend a particular book sarajane?
Catherien: I dinno, I hve the Entrepreneur magazine's guide to owning a home based business
7Jackie: oh I see Cat
Sarajane: no particular ones that I can recall title to...
7Jackie: I have something to say about that
7Jackie: You won't believe it, maybe
Sarajane: go ahead!
7Jackie: but the IRS publishes ALL of the rules each year
7Jackie: and they write them in a way that is readable
Sarajane: yes, they do--and its on line too!
7Jackie: some of it is difficult
7Jackie: but your best bet if you want to be on top of this and find it difficult?
Sarajane: yes, but its mostly all understandable
7Jackie: Is to use a program like Quicken to record everything all yuear long
7Jackie: then buy - oh dear - hang on
Catherien: yeah I agree
7Jackie: the tax program??
7Jackie: from Intuit??
7Jackie: gee I can't remember what it is called it is MARVELOUS
Sarajane: For those who use computer accounting, Quicken or Excel are both good
7Jackie: and it interfaces with Quicken and probably others
7Jackie: Thank you yes Shelley - Turbo Tax
SueDeaunim: Hubby's a CPA and has been using it for years
Catherien: I have a suggestion too: choose 3 times a week to spend an hour doing your bookwork. When I am on top of things, I do it M-W-F.
7Jackie: It made what used to be a real serious marital problem a breeze
7Jackie: ACTION hangs head
Catherien: We use TT also Jackie. It's good.
Sarajane: I run mine by the HR Block lady when we file electronically--she checks it all. I deduct the cost the next year under "professional services"
7Jackie: ACTION looks at piles of paper
7Jackie: ACTION sighs
PoKoPat: ACTION joins Jackie in sighing over mounds of paper that used to be a desk.
Catherien: LOL add one for me, Jackie
7Jackie: thanks Sarajane
Kim: Entered room.
7Jackie: stoopid clay is what does that
PoKoPat: wb Kim
Rosey63: hi kim
KCRedcat: hello again...
Sarajane: its a booger, I'll admit...I became an artist to get away from math.
7Jackie: Hi Kim
Catherien: wb Kim
7Jackie: Yes Sarajane!!
PoKoPat: lol, SJ - doesn't sound like it worked!
Sarajane: BUT---the money I get back every year is my funding for the year.
7Jackie: I used to be unbelievabley organized
7Jackie: (and I used to spell much better too)
PoKoPat: Okay another question.
Catherien: But it I think if we do the accounting, and we do it right-- it gives us a clear look of how our business is running, and motivates creativity
PoKoPat: This came up in one of the About forums, I think.
KCRedcat: right Cat
Sarajane: and knowing I spent $400 a year at Kinkos made buying a printer very feasable
PoKoPat: How long can you declare a loss as a small business, before the IRS becomes wary of you?
KCRedcat: ouch! for sure!
Catherien: amen, Sarajane. It's rediculous when you add up a dollar here and a dollar there...
Sarajane: 3 years before you must prove you are really trying--by showing show fees, etc.
PoKoPat: Or before someone yanks your license?
Sarajane: THEN they look to see if you are declaring reasonable amounts.
PoKoPat: Why are shows essential to proving you're really trying?
Sarajane: $5000 in lunches and $10 in sales is not going to look good.
ljcswartz: I have to run.. thanks for the info. Will there be a posting of the total chat later, I hope?
KCRedcat: what if you can't do shows...and only put your things in consignment???
Sarajane: shows are one way--you've booked a paying gig. A pro opprtunity...
KCRedcat: I've logged....
PoKoPat: Yes, Jackie there will be. Have a great day sweetie.
Sarajane: consignments fine--it show you are trying.
ljcswartz: *PART* Left room.
Catherien: But shows are a level up from consignment
KCRedcat: when I did 'consignment'...THEY took the taxes out themselves...
Sarajane: ANY sales venue!! Doing a show at the local library, teaching classes...
KCRedcat: not around here! LOL
KCRedcat: 'step up'!
7Jackie: where are you , Kim?
Sarajane: Kim, that's sales tax, different thing from income tax
Catherien: and truly do provide greater opportunity both for expanding business and almost as importantly, networking.
7Jackie: shows do
Sarajane: you bet.
KCRedcat: too many are too 'commercialy' uhmm...too many 'non-craft' booths...
KCRedcat: Michigan....north of Detroit....
Sarajane: you have to pay to play
Sarajane: I do a show and count the fees spent, the cost of the hotel the cost of travel, one half food costs....
Catherien: yep, takes money to make money
KCRedcat: for the 'auto' industry it's very 'rough' these days...job loss high due to plants closing and going to other 'countries'...
Sarajane: then if I buy, its at wholesale, and I pay no taxes. If I sell, I must collect sales tax on retail
7Jackie: it's rough all over, Kim!
KCRedcat: yep, I know.
7Jackie: right and you have to file your collection of sales tax
Sarajane: Its much simpler to work for someone else--lots of details if you are the company
KCRedcat: like I said....right now it's prolly best to 'not' be 'in' business....
Catherien: and don't forget to give people receipts even if they buy one bead!
KCRedcat: can't handle the 'physical' aspects....thanks to FORMER employer....
7Jackie: no, Kim, even if the roughest of times it is better to be in business
Sarajane: I agree, Kim--just have fun with it.
KCRedcat: I can't clay some days....
Sarajane: but some ya can--look at it that way
Rosey63: no watch out im going to talk- dont want to scare anyone :)
KCRedcat: even 'if' I weren't BUSY with the 'new' BF! LOL
Rosey63: i just have problem with production work
PoKoPat: Rosey! Speak up!
KCRedcat: yep, that can be,,,,BORING
Sarajane: Your delphi fees are deductable--professional organizations
Rosey63: im all set up just no time to produce enough to do a good show
Sarajane: Me too, Rosey!
Catherien: oh really...delphi, NPCG, etc?
Sarajane: yep, those are deductable
_Love_my_Beads_: *PART* Left room.
KCRedcat: eeep...ria? is bouncing....
Catherien: LOL ria's here
7Jackie: Hey there Ria, HOLD STILL!
PoKoPat: She'll get here eventually.
rubarb04: i have to go guys
KCRedcat: bye Barb
SueDeaunim: Bye Barb
rubarb04: thanks so much sarajane and everyone
PoKoPat: Aw, well have a great day Ru!
rubarb04: *PART* Left room.
Sarajane: Rosie, even a small amount of Good Work well displayed is enough!
Catherien: When we directly deal with a customer who wants special orders, do we add a price for work out of the ordinary-- a fee of sorts?
KCRedcat: ok...Heather...ya kinda 'HAVE' to make TIME to clay....
Rosey63: sorry working too
7Jackie: Oh how sweet that is, Sarajane!!
KCRedcat: put 'other' things aside....
Rosey63: yeah good point sarajane
Rosey63: start out small
Sarajane: Cat, I ALWAYS charge extra for special orders
KCRedcat: right....unique things are 'good'....
Sarajane: more, if I don't want to do it.
SueDeaunim: How do you determine how much extra?
Catherien: LOL more if you don't want to do it
KCRedcat: it's like 'hazzard pay'!?!?! <>
PoKoPat: Cat! Shame on you, hehe.
7Jackie: Yes, Kim - hazard for THEM
KCRedcat: and you....could frell up your 'artistic' MUSE!<>
KCRedcat: that's a MAJOR 'loss'...
PoKoPat: But I can understand it. I have to make 2 new scarves for someone, because they changed their mind. Ahem.
Sarajane: Liz Taylor said "Tell them 7 million" but they actually paid...so quote a fee you'd like!
Catherien: A question about teaching, SJ: Do you think its more beneficial in the long run to teach at independent business locations rather than as an employee of a craft store?
Sarajane: I do, and here's why
KCRedcat: "I" would think you'd have more 'control'....
7Jackie: me too
Sarajane: control is VERY important...so's respect
Sarajane: your class is a product. So is your presence
KCRedcat: after my ONE class at Joann's ETC last year...I was "VERY" upset...
Sarajane: so its important to control perceptions of that value.
KCRedcat: part of YOU and your 'art/gift/talent'...
Sarajane: My presence is worth far more than $10 per hour and benes...
7Jackie: Okay, Sarajane,. another question/thought/subject on that subject
Catherien: hmmm, good food for thought.
Sarajane: not to sound conceited!!
KCRedcat: if 'they' don't come through for some reason or another....it reflects BADLY on 'you'....even though it was NOT 'within' your control!
PoKoPat: nope, just honest, SJ
7Jackie: oh, please do sound conceited!!
Sarajane: but I can be a ten dollar an hour employee ANYWHERE
SueDeaunim: Sarajane, I think what you're saying about your image is very important...it's also important in chosing the venues in which you well things.
7Jackie: we should be -not proud - but sure of our abilities!
PoKoPat: Jackie, what was your question?
Sarajane: hang on brb
KCRedcat: demand/request RESPECT!!!!!!!!!
PoKoPat: ok SJ
7Jackie: scuse me...
Sarajane: here I am...missed the phone
KCRedcat: doctors and lawyers etc get PAID what they are 'supposedly' WORTH...we also have talent and TRAINING...
7Jackie: granddaughter talking
Catherien: Kim you're making good points here
7Jackie: If we don't want to deal with Michael's but we have something we know we can teach
7Jackie: and we live in nowhere land...
KCRedcat: yeah....lots of 'years' trying to 'inform' my damily! LOL
Catherien: I think my questions reflect the growing pains...leveling up.
Sarajane: then write it up, Jackie
7Jackie: what can we do to get our abilities out there
KCRedcat: and well, respecting MYSELF...finally!
7Jackie: yes I could but I wish to be paid for my teaching
7Jackie: good idea, though!
Sarajane: that's where it starts, Kim!
7Jackie: I need money badly right now
7Jackie: but you are right, I can do that
Sarajane: Jackie, you alreadcy have access to the worlds biggest show and tell.
7Jackie: write it up
7Jackie: yes I know
KCRedcat: have a grocery store or place where they allow posting of 'info'???
Sarajane: So do I Jackie--my last payday was October.
Catherien: SJ, what do you think about auction sales?
KCRedcat: hand out business cards....
Sarajane: being a pro is not a gateway to fast bucks
7Jackie: mine too, Sarajane!
7Jackie: oh I know that
KCRedcat: people and their money are 'fickle'....
7Jackie: and I am not yet a pro! At this anyway
Sarajane: Hand out cards, put a website together--learn how or barter
KCRedcat: around here they are into those UGLY H2s and boats and such....GIANT HOUSES....etc...
PoKoPat: SJ, did you see Cat's question?
Sarajane: auctions are a good way to get a little income and attention!
7Jackie: yes you are inspiring me, Sarajane
Sarajane: yep, just typing not fast enuf!
7Jackie: auctions on ebay?
PoKoPat: Is the license, tax id, etc. necessary for auctions?
7Jackie: yes Pat
Sarajane: ebay, justbeads--I clear things out that way, but get about wholesale
SueDeaunim: Speaking of auctions, how well do they work for you, Sarajane? Success rate?
Catherien: do you think auctions are more wholesale or retail from a buyer's perspective?
KCRedcat: oh yeah, 'if' you make JEWELRY....wear it! and have the business cards to hand out when people ask you about it!
7Jackie: good idea, Kim
Sarajane: Pat internet sales are a hot new legal subject
Sarajane: Sue, I just listed 11 items and had one sell--at the opening bid
shannonowalk: Entered room.
KCRedcat: states are crying about the losses of taxes due to internet sales....
PoKoPat: Hi Shannon.
Catherien: Kim...people will ask about it, too. Have cards ready. Darn, should have remembered that last night at Bath & Body! Doh!
7Jackie: hi Shannon
KCRedcat: hi Shannon
SueDeaunim: Hi Shannon
shannonowalk: Hi all.
Sarajane: You must declare the income, but you may not need a license...
KCRedcat: yeah, I forget too! LOL
PoKoPat: Okay, SJ, but my question was - will they let you auction if you don't have all the paperwork?
Catherien: Hi Shannon
KCRedcat: right...unless you collect the 'sales tax'....
Sarajane: oh yes, that's not required
PoKoPat: Sorry, too slow on the keys.
7Jackie: good question Pat
Sarajane: ebay needs a drivers licence or id
7Jackie: tax id?
KCRedcat: some states are trying to 'force' you to REQUIRE and collect sales tax....
7Jackie: I am not giving them my driver's license number
Sarajane: to set up a sales account
Sarajane: they want an ID to prove adulthood
7Jackie: a tax id, Sarajane, do you know?
7Jackie: oh I see
KCRedcat: ahhhh, adulthood! LOL
Sarajane: no, just a personal id that shows proof of over 21
PoKoPat: Well, that let's me out. I quit being an adult about 5 years ago.
Sarajane: I use state ID, don't drive
7Jackie: yes I should get a separate ID that means nothing
Sarajane: adult, Pat--not grownup
7Jackie: all of us are children
PoKoPat: rofl, SJ
7Jackie: and adults
KCRedcat: better than being 'childish'! LOL
7Jackie: grownup is optional
Sarajane: also, if you do auctions, set up with paypal
KCRedcat: young at heart!
Sarajane: 95% of my buyers pay that way
7Jackie: Oh wait Sarajane!
KCRedcat: yeah, I 'like' Paypal...
Catherien: I agree about paypal
Catherien: it's great
Sarajane: end of year, I print out my records
PoKoPat: Wait what, Jackie?
7Jackie: I find paypal wants too much information just to purchase something!
KCRedcat: wish more online retailers took it!
shannonowalk: Yes. A lot of people won't even buy from you if they can't pay with paypal. They'll skip you and go on to the merchant that does have it.
Sarajane: proof of what I spend, proof of earnings
7Jackie: I cannot imagine what info they want if you want to be a seller
Rosey63: ok i should get back to work- bye all!
KCRedcat: I'd rather us Paypal than my debit card for online purchases...
PoKoPat: They don't sell the info Jackie - it's strictly confidential.
7Jackie: I won't use them because of that (as a buyer)
SueDeaunim: bye Rosey
KCRedcat: ok, ttfn Heather!
Sarajane: then you probably won't enjoy the legal aspects of doing business, Jackie. There's a trail. They keep records
PoKoPat: Bye Rosey, have a great day!
Catherien: bye rosey
KCRedcat: btw- my PM and motor came already! LOL
Rosey63: very cool Kim
Rosey63: im jealous
KCRedcat: already set up! LOL
shannonowalk: Whoo hoo!
Rosey63: ok buh bye
Rosey63: *PART* Left room.
7Jackie: I do business now Sarajane well, I mean I did until company laid off people and that let me out too
PoKoPat: Congrats, Kim. Darn - keep dropping potato chips on the keyboard.
KCRedcat: it's my second one of 'both'<>
Sarajane: *PART* Left room.
KCRedcat: eep! lost SJ!
shannonowalk: For me, it's Guacamole flavored Dorito chips. Mmmm... Tasty.
Catherien: I love those too shannon
PoKoPat: Prednisone makes me ravenous. Eat all day long.
7Jackie: Kim, do you know how we can see a log of this chat?
PoKoPat: They'll write it up and post it to the board with a link later, Jackie.
7Jackie: there is a song about "sleep all day long"
KCRedcat: they'll end up posting it at some point to the pcc site...
7Jackie: but not "eat all day long"
7Jackie: okay, thank you Kim
PoKoPat: I can't help it.
KCRedcat: I logged it....
KCRedcat: yeah, I miss my 'REAL' normal ritalin...it helped me NOT eat and nibble so much! ack!
Sarajane: Entered room.
KCRedcat: WB SJ!
Catherien: I'm glad I came into this chat today...motivating me to get bookwork done while we chat. thanks guys. :)
SueDeaunim: Wow, I just got an e-mail from a friend with some pics attached of the scams that are occurring on ATMs with additional card readers and hidden cameras.
Sarajane: hi there!
SueDeaunim: WB SJ
KCRedcat: yeah, now that its a 'new year'...I NEED to start putting my receipts in an envelope each month!
PoKoPat: Gee SJ, did we scare you off? ;)
Catherien: Oh hey SJ I have another question
Sarajane: right, so that at this time next year, you are ready...
KCRedcat: oh yeah, they had that on our local news for months here in MI....scarey
Sarajane: sure thing!
7Jackie: wb sj
Catherien: getting your bank to accept business-addressed checks
Catherien: if you order checks with your business name/addy on them,
Sarajane: Cat, you need a business account or a ton of charm
Catherien: do you need to contact your bank to put that name on your account?
Catherien: I do have an unused checking account
KCRedcat: I never had a problem...but then I bought them through my bank with my business account....
Sarajane: they won't, I bet
SueDeaunim: I've heard that it's easier to have checks issued in your name rather than your fancy business name...and less likely for your bank to want to charge you extra for the account
Sarajane: no, they want it set up as business, and they charge differently for that
KCRedcat: my bank has FREE small business checking!
PoKoPat: that's cool, Kim.
KCRedcat: free checking period! I love this bank!
Catherien: I have heard that banks are different in this respect
KCRedcat: hate the commericals....but love the bank! LOL
Sarajane: they certainly are..so you'd need to ask
Catherien: but since we've had this account for years, I was going to see if they would accept checks on the business name
Catherien: haven't checked yet
KCRedcat: too many 'other' banks want to 'charge' if you don't own a home....
Sarajane: that's the charm part...
Catherien: only been officially in business 20 days :)
KCRedcat: yes, get to know the people at your bank...
Sarajane: the cost of business acct, fees, checks--all deductable
KCRedcat: TCF has been VERY helpful for me....
Catherien: right-- keep receipts on EVERYTHING
KCRedcat: esp when AOHELL was frelling with my account!
KCRedcat: found out I was NOT "ALONE"....sadly tons of other people had the same problems with aol
Sarajane: I can't deduct aol--family uses it--but CAN deduct my ISP costs for polyclay.com
KCRedcat: sadly...I had to close it...the account....
Catherien: SJ, do you do your taxes annually or quarterly, and why?
KCRedcat: someday I 'hope' to open a 'different' account for the business....when my 'health' etc gets better,,,,
Sarajane: I do them annually, not enough regular income for anything else
PoKoPat: Well, the isp for us is for both home and business - but I could deduct the web host fee.
KCRedcat: right, if it's for the business yes???
Sarajane: and Pat, you can also deduct fees for any html work anyone else does for you, etc.
PoKoPat: Yeah, my sale site.
diamondjenn: Entered room.
Catherien: really? I thought given your fame, your income would be comparable ;)
KCRedcat: hi Jenn
PoKoPat: Hi Jenn!
7Jackie: Hi Jen
diamondjenn: Hi everybody!
Catherien: oh back to the html thing:
SueDeaunim: Are there any good sources to read up on setting up to do business via your own website?
SueDeaunim: Hi Jenn
Catherien: If I pay my daughter to be my webmistress, can I deduct that as a business expense?
Catherien: Hi Jen!
Sarajane: Oh, Cat, I'm not very famous!
PoKoPat: Yes you are, lady!
KCRedcat: yeah, sure your not!
Catherien: SJ, you are too. LOL
7Jackie: You ARE very famous, Sarajane!!
KCRedcat: I have two books with YOUR NAME on them<>
PoKoPat: See? You're outvoted.
shannonowalk: She's being all modest on us. :)
7Jackie: no way Sarajane, you are FAMIOSA
KCRedcat: as 'author'...then there's the OTHER BOOKS she's talked about in! LOL
7Jackie: we llike you, too
Sarajane: well, as to resources--I learned html from hitting the help files
PoKoPat: Cat, is your daughter doing the web stuff as a business? Or a favor to you?
Sarajane: well, lets hope fortune catches up soon
PoKoPat: Amen to that, SJ
7Jackie: Cat's going to teach her then we are all going to use her to set up our sites
7Jackie: she will have income galore at age 17
Sarajane: Cat, if your daughter declares it as income, you can declare it as expense
Catherien: Yes, I know how to do it-- just no time (haven't updated my site in almost a year). Can teach my daughter easily and she can maintain my site and do all the bookeeping for it. She's smart as a tack.
7Jackie: she's sweet, too
Catherien: Ok at her age though?
SueDeaunim: I've got some software that I need to learn for website setup...what I don't know about is how you set up to do e-commerce
7Jackie: I adore her already
Catherien: Oh wait, she's going to need a work permit
7Jackie: yes children can be entrepeneurs
7Jackie: so get her a work permit
Catherien: Sue-- use paypal for it.
Sarajane: well, read what the sites say--paypal, ebay, all that
Catherien: ok adding that to my list Jack
PoKoPat: I took the coward's way out on that, Sue.
SueDeaunim: So, there is information to link your own site to paypal?
Sarajane: no---she's working for family and that's a different thing again!
7Jackie: I hope you will, Cat, because I will truly use her as my webmistress if she can do the job
SueDeaunim: What way is that, Pat?
PoKoPat: I found a web host who had it all set up for me already. ;)
Catherien: Ok so how do I file the income I pay her, SJ?
PoKoPat: I don't even have to know html.
ALANJAMESV: Entered room.
PoKoPat: Nope artsefest, Jackie.
PoKoPat: Hi Alan.\
Sarajane: It took several years, but I learned how--so I can change at will
shannonowalk: *PART* Left room.
KCRedcat: hi ALan!
7Jackie: Hi Alan
ALANJAMESV: hi all
diamondjenn: hi Alan
SueDeaunim: Hi Alan
Sarajane: Still learning more--fer instance, shopping carts/CGIs
Sarajane: Hi Alan!
Catherien: Hi Alan!
7Jackie: GUIs I mean
PoKoPat: I avoided learning that intentionally, Sarajane. No joke this time.
7Jackie: what is GUIs?
Sarajane: Cat, you's get a reciept from her, its "professional services" on your sched,C
Catherien: do you get much business through your website, SJ?
PoKoPat: computer graphic imaging?
Catherien: Ok SJ I'll write that down too
7Jackie: Sarajane, what is CGIs?
Sarajane: Cat, I get enough to pay for itself, and its GREAT advertising.
Sarajane: It provides more income every year
Catherien: Ok another question...can you claim your checks to your housekeeper?
Sarajane: and impresses the heck out of those who have little trespect for hobbyhousewives in their basements
Catherien: amen to that, LOL
PoKoPat: Met a few of those myself.
Sarajane: Only for the portion of the studio if she cleans!
PoKoPat: SJ, did you see Jackie's question?
Sarajane: nope--just looked
ALANJAMESV: wish I had a basement - let alone a hobby-housewife
Sarajane: hang on--GUIs are a script
PoKoPat: There's that sly Brit humor again.
diamondjenn: like in writing?
ALANJAMESV: oooo - no idea what you mean Pat
Sarajane: they get used in shopping carts and such
PoKoPat: sure, Alan.
7Jackie: okay thank you Sarajane
7Jackie: I haven't heard of that term, weird
Sarajane: something something interface--I forget
PoKoPat: That's where we differ, SJ.
KCRedcat: I have, but had no 'clue' what it was...only Computer speak...lol
7Jackie: it's fine Sarajane, I was just curious
Sarajane: Where, Pat?
PoKoPat: I don't want to learn all that. I'd rather have someone else do it, and spend more time with the clay.
KCRedcat: a foriegn language! lol
PoKoPat: ok Cat
7Jackie: we have snow snow snow again
KCRedcat: right, I'm that way about 'shows'....it saped my energy and creative 'spirit' when I did them....
PoKoPat: I maintain my own site, but I don't have to know html. Just point and click.
PoKoPat: Aw gee, sorry Jackie.
Sarajane: I didn't want to either. I had to!
7Jackie: so I have to get going and SHOVEL it stoopid stuff
KCRedcat: safe shoveling!
PoKoPat: Sorry again, sweetie. Do I dare say have a good day?
Sarajane: Its like the worlds biggest box of crayons, with computers
diamondjenn: we had snow last night, I don't shovel, let melt!
KCRedcat: we 'might' get some here tomorrow late....hope not!
7Jackie: Thank you very much Sarajane, this has been totally good for me today!! I needed to be reminded and to learn some things
Sarajane: glad to see you here!
ALANJAMESV: take care Jackie
PoKoPat: Talk to you later, Jackie!
7Jackie: It will be a good day - I'll get the "whip" out and make Dezaree help me!!
SueDeaunim: bye Jackie
PoKoPat: as if.
diamondjenn: bye Jackie
7Jackie: oops she just read that and said aha
KCRedcat: already have about 1 1/2' to 2 ft on the ground...ack frelling CCCOLD here today!
7Jackie: bye guys thanks again Sarajane!!
PoKoPat: wb Cat
ALANJAMESV: hi Dezaree
Sarajane: stay inside and stay warm, Kim!
KCRedcat: yepper...and clay!
7Jackie: Alan, Dez says hi ALAN
KCRedcat: went out yesterday to shop shop shop<>
Sarajane: any questions thus far?
KCRedcat: was 2 degrees this am....brrrrrr
PoKoPat: Hi Dez, bye Dez.
Catherien: SJ, do you think it's better to be a sole proprietor or to incorporate?
PoKoPat: Well yeah, SJ
7Jackie: she is remembering ugly spider, Alan
Sarajane: Did I miss any more?
7Jackie: *PART* Left room.
Sarajane: sole proprietor!!
Catherien: ok, and why?
KCRedcat: less paperwork???
Sarajane: the benefits to a corporation are only if you are pretty big--otherwise deductions are dissallowed, etc
Sarajane: my sister got screwed big time as a corporation
Catherien: ok that makes sense
Catherien: and would you file jointly or separately?
Sarajane: WAY more paperwork and legal obligation as a corp.
KCRedcat: well, unless like one of my 'former' bosses and used the 'change' to frell the Govt!
Sarajane: Cat my DH and I file jointly, with my sched. C and E
Sarajane: royalties are on E
Catherien: ok good
Sarajane: weren't last year, are this year
Catherien: so far we've made good choices
KCRedcat: he pulled one of those "move the equiptment to the Corp and filed bankrupt on all his bills! tisk tisk!
Sarajane: each individual business files a separaate sched. C
PoKoPat: Can I get back to one of my ?s that wasn't really completely answered?
Sarajane: please do, Pat
Sarajane: it was fast and furious there for a while
Catherien: ok good SJ
PoKoPat: With the auto repair business we have - licenses and all - can I use that for the time being for my work?
PoKoPat: Or would it be too confusing to the doofuses at the IRS?
KCRedcat: I'd think it's too 'differnt'....
KCRedcat: they might have 'issues' with it....
Sarajane: you CAN do it--whether it would be a problem, I don't know/....
KCRedcat: an audit you....
KCRedcat: right...might be 'iffy'....I would think.....
Sarajane: it certainly won't help you keep track of your own bus, expenses--
KCRedcat: cars and clay...lol
KCRedcat: unless you cover the cars with clay....
diamondjenn: bye kids, have to go deal with the TV people, almost as bad as the IRS!
PoKoPat: Keeping track of expenses isn't the problem, I'm good with that.
Sarajane: unless of course you show a connection--use the clay to make replacement knoebs on classic cars and you are IN!
Catherien: can I ask about business insurance?
SueDeaunim: bye Jenn
PoKoPat: Bye Jenn, have a good one.
KCRedcat: good luck!
ALANJAMESV: bye Jenn
Catherien: lol bye Jenn
diamondjenn: bye thanks!
PoKoPat: What if we sell items in the office of our shop?
Sarajane: Sure Cat, but I bet I can't answwer
diamondjenn: *PART* Left room.
Catherien: Ok do try though
Sarajane: will do!
Sarajane: What about it, Pat? track all sales..
Catherien: Is it possible to insure your products against theft and vandalism while at a show?
Sarajane: its possible to insure anything
KCRedcat: good one!
Sarajane: whether they will pay.....
Sarajane: whether its worth it.....
PoKoPat: It might be expensive, Cat. Check with your homeowner's insurance.
Sarajane: Pat, if you have a regular space for sales at your business place, that's prolly good enuf!
Catherien: My homeowners' insurace does cover it, including transit, but not sure if I should increast it from $1000
PoKoPat: Thanks, SJ.
Catherien: and only costs me about $10/month
KCRedcat: not bad
PoKoPat: I would say that's a good figure for now, wouldn't you SJ?
Sarajane: Pat, my thoughts on the insurance industry are not best shared
PoKoPat: lol, well I understand that.
Catherien: no swearing here SJ
PoKoPat: gmta, and all that.
KCRedcat: my granny worked for AAA for over 30 years....I've 'heard'....
Sarajane: that's what I said!!!
PoKoPat: But seriously, Cat?
PoKoPat: Remember breakages and theft also come under expenses, right SJ?
Catherien: yeah seriously... B&B is a big show
KCRedcat: she's PArinoid of filing 'ANY' claim! then again she IS 85! and a tightwad!
Catherien: and I have two other shows lined up for the spring
Sarajane: I personally believe Cat would derive as much protection by burning the 10 bucks in front of a Kwan Yin statue
Sarajane: maybe more
PoKoPat: SJ, aren't the breakages and thefts considered expenses?
Catherien: oh gosh
Catherien: that was hilarious
KCRedcat: loss I'd think....
Sarajane: yes, those are deductable
PoKoPat: thought so.
Sarajane: so are bad debts
PoKoPat: We have our share of vandalism, etc. at our shop.
Catherien: ok in the case of being deductible, I won't worry about it unless it comes up
Sarajane: insurance is vital in lawsuits where people slip, etc.
Catherien: do you think accepting credit cards is a good idea or more of a hassle than it's worth to collect?
KCRedcat: yeah, sure....
PoKoPat: Or where you have their property in your possession.
Sarajane: most venues such as B&B already carry ins. for that
KCRedcat: but....here in MI...auto ins is 'no fault'...what a JOKE!
Sarajane: paypal provides for credit card payments
PoKoPat: Sure does.
Catherien: Yes the B&B does, but the Lilac festival doesn't.
Sarajane: having a separate vendor act. for cards is good if you do more than one show per month
PoKoPat: brb - need still more coffee!
KCRedcat: I always wondered about that....
Sarajane: They rent the venue? then they are liable.
Catherien: like Jennypat does
KCRedcat: when is it 'worth' the credit card use fees....
Sarajane: At least I think they are liabel--I'm not a lawyer
Catherien: I think they rent the venue, but I'm not sure on the ownership on that one
KCRedcat: should be in your 'contract' I'd think???
Sarajane: Kim, only if you are doing shows all the time
KCRedcat: right, that's what I figured....
Catherien: They said they were not liable, Kim
KCRedcat: in writing?
Sarajane: That may be waht they believe
PoKoPat: Hey Alan, are you bored yet?
ALANJAMESV: I'm kindof fascinated
Sarajane: laws are not always followed or known, even
PoKoPat: Well, after all, little of this would apply to him.
PoKoPat: Different country, after all.
Catherien: Yeah, it's on the application: loss, theft, damage to artwork, personal property, and person, regardless of cause
ALANJAMESV: but it has v v little bearing on me - so I'm observing
Sarajane: his is not so litiginous a society, tho they spawned the lawyer...
PoKoPat: What's a v v bearing, Alan? Something they put in British autos?
ALANJAMESV: wanna bet - we've caught yours
ALANJAMESV: always TV ads for lawyers - no win no fee - oh reallly!
KCRedcat: yeah, that usually means NO TAKE THE CASE!
Sarajane: lawyers fees are deductable!!1
ALANJAMESV: yep - AND we loan you the cash in the first place
Sarajane: so are photographers, teachers of skillsyou use in business...
Catherien: like my class at the show
Catherien: good thanks!
PoKoPat: SJ, a little off topic, but what's a decent fee for teaching a pc class? Hourly rate, I mean.
Sarajane: and you can make your children stuff bags and things and not pay them--aint life grand.
Catherien: if I buy new clothes for a show would that be a covered expense?
KCRedcat: if you had kids! LOL
PoKoPat: Mine's 20, he'd revolt!
Sarajane: Pat, that depends--where, to whom--your peers? Guild mates? Strangers?
PoKoPat: Should be, Cat.
KCRedcat: my cats are...useless....well, when it comes to claying! LOL
PoKoPat: Strangers, at the local gallery.
KCRedcat: hmmm...wait...I have to 'pay' them food to 'model'....isn't that like bartering<>
ALANJAMESV: try a siamese - they're used to hard work
Sarajane: How many, how long?
Catherien: why would fees be different for peers, guild mates, and strangers?
PoKoPat: The way she works it, the first class is one on one, then they join the group. Each session is one hour.
Sarajane: Pofessional courtesy, professional standing....
Sarajane: my guild mates are not as impressed as strangeers--they get me free, other times
KCRedcat: a 'cat' of any kind doing 'hard work'!!?!?!?!?
ALANJAMESV: well - ours' lungs work hard
Sarajane: Guilds usually pay 10-20 per student, five bucks more for non guild members
KCRedcat: yeah, right, sure....
PoKoPat: Okay, then I'm doing fine.
KCRedcat: lungs?oh,,,,talking! LOL
PoKoPat: Guaranteed $15/hour, up to $25 for the classes, when they get larger.
SueDeaunim: Our guild pays $40-$60 per student to nationally known artists
Sarajane: for schools, scouts, etc. I donate time and materials
SueDeaunim: That's per day
Sarajane: yes, Sue, I should have said more for the longer classes
PoKoPat: So, Alicia (the gallery owner) is doing well by me?
Sarajane: and when you do a demo or class for donation---its deductable
SueDeaunim: Oh, another good point
Catherien: you're getting more than I am, pat-- but remember the 50% income tax.
Catherien: OH! free demos are deductible!
PoKoPat: 50% Cat?
Sarajane: you deduct the donation of your valuable workshop/demo
Sarajane: Get a reciept
Catherien: yes, if you're self employed, Pat
PoKoPat: oh, that. snort
PoKoPat: don't get me started.
Sarajane: I give items for auction to the Humane Soc.--and deduct the $$ as advertising expenses
KCRedcat: ok all...speaking of 'cats'...it's the 3pm feeding time...and my Tabigayle is chewing me out and telling me she's STARVING....
SueDeaunim: So, Sarajane, are you getting a receipt for all this online instruction you're giving us now?
Sarajane: best go serve up food!!!!
KCRedcat: so.,...bye and ya'll have great days, evenings whatever!
PoKoPat: Have a great one, Kim!
Sarajane: No, but its one of the reasons I can deduct my Delphi fees!
Catherien: Yeah SJ, sue has a point
ALANJAMESV: thanks - you too
SueDeaunim: OK, I understand, SJ
KCRedcat: yes, then off to clay with the NEW PM & motor! a 'second' working one! wahoo!<>
PoKoPat: Have fun!
Sarajane: Part of the proof that I am a pro, even if not making a profit this year
Catherien: Have a great time, Kim
KCRedcat: *PART* Left room.
Sarajane: which I might even be---haven't added it all up yet.
Catherien: The scope of it is mind boggling
Sarajane: any other ?s?
PoKoPat: Nope, got enough to mull over as it is.
SueDeaunim: No, you've given us some great insights. Thanks!
Catherien: I don't have any. Need to digest this when it's logged and keep for reference.
Sarajane: you are welcome! Don't be intimidated--it really does take getting used to, but its valuable.
Sarajane: yes, I'll edit the log this week.
Catherien: Thank you for spending your afternoon with us SJ!
PoKoPat: Yeah, SJ, thanks for all the info.
Sarajane: you are quite welcome! You know I'm doing a column on all this for Belle Armoire?
PoKoPat: Just out of curiosity - no, and congrats! - what's next month's topic?
Catherien: Yes, isn't it in this month's issue
SueDeaunim: Yes, I think you mentioned that the last time I saw you in chat
Sarajane: every issue now we deal with professional stuff...
Catherien: excellent. though I thought it was going in the CAFE?
Sarajane: I'm not sure which one comes next--but the one I'm just now submitting is about taxes and records
Sarajane: I think the next in print is Presentation
PoKoPat: I meant here, SJ.
Sarajane: about cards, and headers and such
Sarajane: oh!!!!! welll.......what ever comes up, I guess!
Catherien: wonderful, I'll make sure I pick those up
PoKoPat: Clay, maybe? hehe
Sarajane: gee, ya think???
Catherien: Ok I'm going to get ready for class
Sarajane: tht's be fun!!
PoKoPat: after all this business talk, would be a nice change.
Catherien: I really enjoyed visiting with everyone
Sarajane: Glad to have you here!
PoKoPat: Have fun with your class, Cat! And have a great day!
SueDeaunim: likewise, Catherien
ALANJAMESV: well - I enjoyed watching - thanks Sj
Catherien: I will....thanks. Take care
SueDeaunim: Thanks again, SJ
PoKoPat: Bye Alan! :(
Catherien: *PART* Left room.
PoKoPat: He doesn't call he doesn't write.
Sarajane: hey Alan--next time will be about funner topics!!
Sarajane: as my kids would say
PoKoPat: Just drops in now and then to tease us.
ALANJAMESV: Oh - I thought it was funny - I do have a serious side too you know
Sarajane: my DH's music teacher is setting up a house in England...we might come visit
ALANJAMESV: just haven't found it
PoKoPat: That sounds like fun, SJ.
ALANJAMESV: Right - will it be deductable?
Sarajane: but I have to work it out...say, if I do, am I legally allowed to have a class there?
PoKoPat: She's always thinking, isn't she?
Sarajane: oh yes--its a book tour if nothing else!
ALANJAMESV: have a word with Sue Heaser - she'll know
SueDeaunim: Sarah Shriver did a class in England last year...you might want to ask her how she did it
Sarajane: will do!
Sarajane: I might have to be a guest, not a worker, or get a permit
PoKoPat: Sarajane, it was informative, though I won't go so far as to say fun.
PoKoPat: But as always, you're a treat to chat with.
Sarajane: math is not always fun, but getting money makes learning numbers pleasanter....
SueDeaunim: And of course, Gwen Gibson does the gigs in France every year and she invites other American artists to teach classes there as well
Sarajane: thank you Pat! Good to ssee you here too.
PoKoPat: I'm going to say bye now, and skedaddle.
PoKoPat: Bye now.
SueDeaunim: bye bye Pat
ALANJAMESV: bye bye folks - thanks SJ - as usual
Sarajane: see you soon!
PoKoPat: ACTION skedaddles
PoKoPat: *PART* Left room.
Sarajane: Bye Alan!
ALANJAMESV: *PART* Left room.
SueDeaunim: Guess I should let you get some work done, Sarajane
SueDeaunim: Thanks for your time
Sarajane: yes, time to do dishes to warm up my fingers, then clay!
Sarajane: you are welcome!
SueDeaunim: Alright...take care!
Sarajane: we'll be here again first tuesday of each month
SueDeaunim: I'll look for you then
SueDeaunim: *PART* Left room.
Sarajane: *LOG at 1/20/2004 3:11:29 PM* OFF